MARGARET WARNER: Paul, Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole just sent out another sort of public letter yesterday saying even though he would have voted to impeach in the House, he still thinks some sort of censure deal is the way to go. Do you think Dole’s going to play an active role in this? Do you think he has clout if he decides to do so?

PAUL GIGOT: Oh, he has some personal contacts among senators, obviously. He was their leader for a time on the Republican side, and he has some moral authority as a former Republican candidate, well respected figure. So there may be people who heed him. I think it’s a little easier to have censure in the Senate because you’re now ñ than it was in the House ñ because you’re now in the punishment stage; you’re now in determining how the ñ how the case ultimately comes out. He has been impeached. And I think that in terms of heeding the Constitution, nobody doubts that the Senate can do what it wants. I mean, there was some debate about what the House could do, but nobody doubts the Senate can dismiss the case if it wants. It can agree to some kind of plea bargain, or it can go up to it and remove the president.

NORMAN ORNSTEIN: Margaret, this is where there are now two crucial figures who will come to the floor ñ Trent Lott, the Senate Majority Leader and Tom Daschle, Senate Democratic leader, who’s also very close to President Clinton. Trent Lott will have a major role in determining whether the Senate now moves to a trial and then after that point reaches a different stage, or whether something else can happen. And the events of the next week or ten days are going to be very important in determining whether or not he makes the political judgment that maybe we should not hold a trial or short circuit in some fashion and ñ or whether we orchestrate a way of getting through this.

JIM LEHRER: President Clinton’s legal defense before the House Judiciary Committee. Stuart Taylor of the National Journal and Newsweek magazines and Tom Oliphant of the Boston Globe are back to offer their commentary. The NewsHour’s chief Washington correspondent, Margaret Warner, is here to assist me in keeping the story line going, among other things. And speaking of the story line, tell us what it is this afternoon.

MARGARET WARNER: Well, this is the big moment that everyone’s been waiting for, I think the President’s detractors, as well as his supporters. This is when Charles Ruff, the White House counsel, lays out the president’s defense both factually and on the law. And he –

JIM LEHRER: And there he is, sitting. He’s already at the witness table, waiting for the committee members, and the man directly behind him is David Kendall, who is the president’s personal lawyer, now being obstructed by a – there you go – there, you can see him – just to Mr. Ruff’s left. That is David Kendall, the president’s personal lawyer, who is not scheduled to participate in this, this afternoon, correct?

MARGARET WARNER: That’s correct. He did the questioning of Kenneth Starr when Kenneth Starr appeared before the committee. But he has been kept out of a public role in these hearings this week.

JIM LEHRER: And Mr. Ruff will – will obviously be speaking – what he says will be based on the 182-page paper that the White House has offered, correct?

TOM OLIPHANT: Well, we got – we got the moment before the climactic moments of this inquiry — I think in terms of testimony and everything, this panel has ended the House Judiciary Committee’s impeachment inquiry, and other than hearing from the poor defendant’s lawyer and having the case summarized and articles presented and voted on, the case is pretty much over.

JIM LEHRER: Do you agree?

STUART TAYLOR: Yes. Of course, we haven’t seen the articles yet. The indictment hasn’t quite been – but we know the rough outlines of what it will be – perjury here, perjury there, grand jury – obstruction of justice, which really is in this case – boils down largely to witness tampering with Betty Currie and Monica Lewinsky. And obviously, the censure option is coming more and more into focus in this committee. We’ve seen reports that the chairman will allow a vote on censure after a vote on impeachment to give those who favor that an option. I think one thing that may be very difficult – lots of people say let’s just censure him – is okay, what is the censure motion going to say, and how do you get all the people who want to say he lied, he lied, he’s a criminal, prosecute him, together with all the people who want to say he was a naughty boy, and we don’t want to really look at it anymore, plus the people who say a fine would be an unconstitutional bill of attainder and those who like Governor Weld of Massachusetts – the former governor – say, oh, no, you can do that if he agrees to it – I think that’s going to be very tricky business.

JIM LEHRER: And, once again, good morning from Washington. I’m Jim Lehrer. Welcome to PBS’s special NewsHour coverage of the House Judiciary Committee hearings on the impeachment of President Clinton. Today, the President’s attorneys wrap up their two-day impeachment defense. We expect to hear from a panel of five attorneys on the standards for obstruction of justice and perjury and then from Charles Ruff, the White House counsel. We’ll be broadcasting today’s proceedings in full. The NewsHour’s chief Washington correspondent, Margaret Warner, is here with me this morning. So are two commentators: Stuart Taylor, a columnist for the National Journal and Newsweek magazines, and Boston Globe columnist Tom Oliphant.

JIM LEHRER: Margaret, the plan for the day is what?

MARGARET WARNER: Well, as you said, Jim, first we’re going to hear a panel of five lawyers, former prosecutors or current prosecutors. And they’re going to – very much as yesterday – talk about the standards for prosecuting both obstruction of justice and perjury. The sort of star witness –

JIM LEHRER: In criminal – in a criminal –

MARGARET WARNER: In a criminal –

JIM LEHRER: If this was, in fact, a criminal case.

MARGARET WARNER: Exactly.

JIM LEHRER: That’s what they’re going to be talking about.

JIM LEHRER: Tom, what do you make of – here are two of the target members of Congress,>two members of the House, two moderate Republicans, twenty to thirty of them, everybody says – their colleagues and folks like that are going to make the decision – what do you make of what they just told Margaret?

TOM OLIPHANT: Well, they underlined the mountain that President Clinton has to climb. They exemplify it. In the first case, Congresswoman Roukema, of course, has been for getting rid of Clinton for some months now – previously via resignation. And Congressman Shays is also in an interesting position. He has had a lot of backlash from contributors. And he has teamed up with the majority whip, Tom Delay, at least to talk down the issue of censure, though he remains opposed to impeachment. I think in Congressman Roukema you have a wonderful example of how easy it is for a member of the House to look at something that was given to the House by an independent counsel and sort of react to it, say, I believe this, I don’t believe that, you have no responsibility for an investigation that the House conducted, and so both within the Judiciary Committee and on the House floor, there’s a kind of free market atmosphere here where you don’t really have to take responsibility for an investigation that you never actually conducted.

JIM LEHRER: And just move it over to the Senate, as you said.

TOM OLIPHANT: Exactly.